The internal political contradictions, rebellions and divisions, party squabbles are again "devouring" our handful, this little, this last, this one... Armenian nation, which has survived many times from human and natural world-destroying disasters and which has come to us from the depths of millennia.
What is it, are our genes our enemies, by God, by the will of God, the fate of the Armenians that was granted to this crazy and poor nation, not learning from past trials, the politics being pursued... which...
It's enough... At this difficult and difficult, gloomy and fateful moment, let's at least listen to our thoughts, to those who are wiser than us, let's listen to what the Armenian Hrant Matevossian, the Armenian patriarch, says.
- Today, when the land of the Armenians is once again heavily planted, when the question of the existence of a nation is again put into question, what excites you at this moment, Patriarch?
- Our irresponsibility towards our own republic, the irresponsibility of every Armenian citizen yesterday towards the Soviet Socialist Republic of Armenia, today towards the Independent Republic of Armenia. We, in alliance with our inner irresponsible lark, associate our work and behavior with the democratic movement, with the overthrow of tyranny, with the impossibility of the cooperation of the Independent States, and as if we were the pioneers of something. Meanwhile, we should have been the masters of our own heads, yesterday, before the former republic, and today, before this new republic, we should fulfill our duties scrupulously... Yesterday we did not fill the army with Armenian forces, we did not fill the reforms proposed yesterday with the capacity of Armenian thought and strength, we did not obey yesterday's mechanism and we do not obey today's mechanism... we are very irresponsible... Indeed, it is anarchy, there are anarchists among us. We contrast this anarchy with our attitude as a freedom fighter, as a freedom-loving person who does not join the army, and in fact it is a refugee from ourselves, a refugee from national duty... The state is established only by the army... And the parliament also avoided answering those questions, and every Armenian youth, girl, boy, have allied themselves well here. as if we are doing something at the time of the disintegration of the tyrannical country, as a nation, as if we are doing something for the victory of world democracy... But in reality we are not doing anything, in fact we are betraying our nation.
- How long do we have to run away from ourselves? It took the Karabakh citizen four years to understand that it is a war...
- Yes. Yerevan will probably still need a little more, although the seeds for becoming a state seem to be good. They should have been raised simply "with caress"... The borders should be preserved... It should be a little different than it is...
War is violence, but reality. You have to submit to reality, you have to submit to the dictates of reality. Neither reality nor blindness will allow you to avoid that reality. Reality imposes itself. you have to be open before him and make a resolution like a man, give your answer to it... But we are still running to Tizbo, we are running to Moscow again, we are running again... We have to organize ourselves, organize our regiments, face reality, and then, after we are prepared within ourselves, within our republic, we turn to the neighboring and other republics... Please, we must prevent it with these... We must really be ready.
- History tells us that we need a firm hand to be ready, because we are not "power-loving" or "liberty-loving", because today the owner is trying with his property not to send his child to the army (you say "child" is 18-35 years old), and the non-owner is for other reasons, but there is a fact that in order to maintain a nation, you have to sweat, you have to give blood, you have to sacrifice yourself... there is no other truth...
- We must stand up for our reality. The expressions of western democracy come flying like a dove on radio and television channels - here, they become an umbrella over our heads and the words we say are constantly taken from our mouths. Sometimes there are sobering "crunches", sometimes we feel the harsh smell of blood, but when we open our mouths to say it, we see again that we spoke the words of another country, the words of political leaders of other countries came out of our mouths... We just have to shut up and find our words, behave in accordance with our words in the face of reality.
...And the reality... A new way of war has been imposed on us. This is the question of Armenia staying in the Caucasus or not. The question is put this way. If we want to be one of the equal nations of the Caucasus, we must not lose, we have no right to lose and we must not lose. But every day is a defeat, every day is an escape. On the one hand, we opened the gates of the republic to heaven, to the West, which is not heaven at all, because it is not your country, and on the other hand, they started eliminating us. These are the broad plans of Turkish nationalism, and if we are going to be massacred, we will be massacred here, I have nothing else to say, that's it... But if we are talking about "if". If-if... If the CIS will be preserved, if the CIS will not be preserved. If the CIS is to be preserved, Armenia will not have a border with Azerbaijan, despite the non-existence of those borders, the Armenians living in the territories that were called Azerbaijan for centuries were deported, civilized expelled from their ancestral land, and that Turk, the Turkish rustic element gloriously endured on that land, your Armenian did not endure, fled, and we all know what happened...
But if the CIS will not be preserved. Turkish and Muslim spheres of influence emerge. In this case, what... If the saving word of reconciliation would come from Moscow or Ankara, it would be the same in both cases. Ankara would absolutely not fight, but Azerbaijan would attack Armenia with its support. Moscow was also going to make people fight with its promises. What will we do under these conditions? In either case, there is no other choice. At some point, we were deceived that the appetite of the Turks would be satisfied by eating Western Armenia, that new times have come and new relations are emerging between the states, but no... We were so deceived until the democrats and intellectuals there said that Karabakh belongs to Azerbaijan. We considered that they said it under the pressure of the fascist parties, but we have to think that the fascist parties, in the end, were created by themselves, by their people, by their government. The question of nation and nation is simply put here.
– On the border of Pakistan and India, in Punjab live the Sinkhs. It is the tribe that did not let Islam enter India. It is said about them that they slept with a dagger or later a gun by their side, day and night, so that Islam would not pass through that area. Now the same thing, the same thing is being dictated to us for the umpteenth time. Now, more than ever, the brain of our state must work, and the soldier must stand up and defend his border.
- Either, or... Either we will stay in the Caucasus, or we won't. Either we will remain in the Caucasus as an equal state... We don't have the resources, we don't have a thousand and one things, and we all know all the other things, or we won't stay. What can I say, all the ruling heights are in the hands of the enemy, they just filled this beautiful valley and they are trying to massacre from all sides... We must not be massacred either...
- On the one hand, we should fight, on the other hand, we should use our diplomacy. But at the moment, if we look around, we see that we have no allies...
- If we exist, the nation, the state, if they exist, an ally will definitely appear.
- An ally in the sense that these are political games, that one time our card may be played, and another time it may not be played. Very little depends on us, unfortunately... Our affairs in Rome went badly. After that, who can we see as an ally, after our unenviable situation there is revealed...
- I'm very sorry, but even the Turk (if you stand up for your identity), even the Turk, I see myself as an ally. If you have done business, you have worked, you carry the politics of war and peace together. All will become my enemies if I condemn myself to suicide, and all will become my friends if I endure and live. That is why, in the case of Artsakh, the two-faced policy seemed very suspicious to me at the very beginning. But I did not give myself to that way of thinking, because I left as "experts" people who handed over to the parliament and the Armenian public opinion in general the version of that two-faced policy regarding Artsakh, which we have chosen. But those double games weren't straight steps, and we're just going to fall into our own trap. What is a ricochet called, what is a ricochet... That ball fired at us should have hit the Turk with a ricochet. That one was going to be the one with the same shade, we avoided it. You know, the truth brings the philosopher and the warrior to a seemingly simple thought, the truth that the homeland cannot be given away. We must all be one, and no more philosophy or other exercises are needed here.
- It seems to me that we still have room to tighten our belts, we will still have to return to Sardarapat. It was a bad situation again at that time, but we managed to maintain our existence...
- Tell me, I remembered. Axel Bakunts was fighting there, the child Nairi Zaryan was in that fight, there were other children as well. Honorable Derenik Demirchyan was already distributing weapons. Grigor Ghapantsyan was there, the child from the orphanage, the boys from the senior class were there. Sardarapat had taken the future poets, the present poets, the poets of the day, the scientists, all of them there.
- In other words, there is no national struggle in Artsakh today.
- There isn't, there isn't, and the fault is the parliament's, it's all of us... it's the whole nation's...
- And the way to atone for sin?
- We must bring back Artsakh. They tell us that Artsakh will get autonomy when the Azerbaijanis who fled from Armenia come back. As they used to say in the 60s. "If you give autonomy to the Azerbaijanis of your regions, you will join us with their territory and property..." Now, 300,000 Armenians, refugees of Baku, have taken the place of the Azerbaijanis here, and the property of those Armenian residents of Baku has been transferred to Azerbaijan with the land rights of Azerbaijan. Now that question is gone. Those citizens, those people who were full-fledged citizens of Azerbaijan, were the owners of Azerbaijan, now homeless, destitute, poor, appeared in Armenia, and it was something like an exchange. The issue of Artsakh has remained a land issue, a land and rights issue. People saw Artsakh as a matter of "landless territory". The Armenian living in Artsakh was not taken into account, until now "territorial demands" are being presented to the whole world. Just like that: "I will make a territorial claim on a person."
...And it doesn't matter to me how my delegation will be received outside, whistled at, provoked, ours will go and see that they don't have a room in the hotel, will be threatened with a knife in dark corridors, bruised, it doesn't matter at all. All of these listed are expected and the whole thing is called the opinion of the international community. But your opinion of an Armenian person and a citizen here is what it is. Can they convince that Karabakh is not your and mine land, that Karabakh is not my half? Karabakh is also my problem, the problem of me, a citizen of Armenia, because when they are expelled from there, they come to my door, they come to share my daily allowance, to devour-destroy my meager resources... this is the style of refugee... Karabakh is my problem, Karabakh is my land, Karabakh cannot be abandoned, even if someone is standing behind the Turk, even if it is the United States of America. So, the rest are completely unacceptable options for me.
- I know that too. I also know that we must be, that it is about our being. But today we are faced with such a reality that the question of dying or being saved in this endless, defensive war is put. What edges of reliance can there be, Chieftain?
- Are there no tanks in Armenia?
- They are destroying them with a tank there, we probably have a tank in Yerevan or Kirovakan, which we don't use or don't want to sacrifice, and anyway, there is a slave sitting among us, let ten people die, what happened... maybe this is what we are talking about.
- You may remember from history how in 1918-20 the Azerbaijanis (the Musavats with the support of the Mensheviks) disarmed and massacred the retreating Russian divisions. They did the right thing... No, the enmity came, you threw the war into this country, and now you get up and go quietly, huh? Well, give us that weapon. This was the right thing to do.
We have our share from the former Union, both gifts and demands. This was a militarily powerful country, so we have to take our share - if we want - to take it back. The Turk has his way of fighting, his way of wanting, don't you see? surrounded by mothers and children, he will drive behind... But if this is the property of the empire, I have my share too, give me my share...
- We didn't do it with mother and child, of course, but even if it was done, if there was really an instruction, they wouldn't ask us and the child. It's just that this is a little deeper politics and maybe it reaches you, your deputy, because there are things behind the curtains that are not visible to ordinary mortals... Apart from that, we can beat the members of the government and the parliamentarians, but we can't tell them to leave this weapon and leave here...
- That's right. Do you remember who beheaded Tsitsianov? Khan of Baku. Cut, sent. Do you remember Haji Murad? Haji Murad was also a traitor. It was like that. Once I was talking to a Turkish writer from Zlatypar, he said that there are two headless corpses buried in Azerbaijan. One is Haji Murad, the other is Tsitsianov. One of them was seen as a traitor, the other as a conqueror. Our loyalty is still being punished by the Russians, and the Azerbaijani has betrayed, is betraying and is betraying again...
- But our loyalty does not go anywhere. This is not loyalty and this spirit is very bad. In someone else's army, we are both brave soldiers and arrogant generals, but in ours, we are poor people.
- Admiral Isakov was from Karabakh, from the village of Nakhichevanik. In 1918, Admiral Bagratuni was there, he fled here to Armenia after the provisional government (in general, many intellectuals returned to Armenia at that time), he also knew Isakov. This is what Bagratuni said. Once again, I see Isakov calling me and saying, "I am appointing you as the head of the fleets of Van", he says the same thing to me, a former admiral, look at it... Do you see where your pathetic internationalism leads... Sadly, yes, your generals were commanders of other armies, your high bureaucrats were other, high-ranking, Moscow, Persian or American cool guys standing in courts, guys who flourished on another platform, politicians or as one play says, sitting on Peter the Great's shoulder and bragging about how tall he is. We need a local guy.
- The nation, which has decently filled the ranks of marshals and generals in all major wars, today does not have its commander and its soldier. Today there is a widespread escape, an escape from the army, from the border. Only those, a very small number, who carry history in their essence and have a memory of blood, are enlisted. In short, it's another flower of volunteers.
- War, army - both are violence, work and violence, and if today we don't have a formed army, it is a big shortcoming of the parliament, the authorities, the president. Yes, we must manfully admit that we did not create an army and we have no right to justify that this or that interfered. Army, war is hard and rough work...
- In this case, we should hope that if not us, then at least history will force us to resort to violence, seeing the creation and establishment of the state as the ultimate goal.
- So far, our favorite writers have embodied the warlike, adventurous character of the Fidayan movement with us. However, I repeat that this is not the army... Joining the ranks, submitting one's will to someone else's is a very difficult thing...
- And yet, what do you consider the first cruel but life-giving step we should take?
– Having the courage to sacrifice. We skipped a lot of things. And if we were guided in many things, even constitutionally, by Gorbachev's plans for secession from the former Union, there would not be so much damage, as it was during our own, tyrannical, anarchic behavior. The army should have been 75 percent Armenian by now. We have avoided and we will have to look for those who failed that sacred task among us.
- Yes, among us and next to the deputies of the RA Supreme Council. Until today, the parliament has not even called Hayrikyan to account, while he spared no effort to not include our children in the "totalitarian", "tyrannical", "invading" Russian army, and to the shame of the parliament and why not, many, many of us, he succeeded. I wonder whose mill he was gristing with his provocations. Meanwhile, the army of our neighbor was built on the basis of that same "invader", with their mercenaries added to it, not to mention the method of financing.
- They are acting according to the laws of war, and we are only incompetently and naively complaining, protesting, saying that they shot wrong. War has no sanctity, it has rules, with all its trappings of deception, bribery, and the rest. Witness the policy and activities of the neighboring republic towards Nagorno Karabakh.
And what about us... In fact, the image of a "rogue", volunteer is published and not the image of a hard-working, hard-working soldier. The character of the army has not yet come to the square. A hit-and-run dance monster fight character has arrived...
-...And no responsibility. The Minister of Defense will be responsible.
- I'm sorry that it is so. I love Vazgen Sargsyan, my heart is connected with that boy.
- He is a writer and, perhaps, your two sons-in-law, Vazgen and Vano, occupy the most important and responsible positions today, carry the heaviest burden with the president of the republic.
- Let me say that both of them (and whoever they were in those positions would be my loved ones, and I would approach them with worship and pity) cannot betray, both of them are quite sincere, both of them are quite defenseless, they have no cunning. The most defenseless, most defenseless and most honest existences of today's Armenian struggle are there. I consider the act of both of them to be a high human feat that they undertook, and I consider the other characteristic that they also have: courage and sincerity. Nevertheless (I'm talking not so much about them, but about others) the square taught them something bad... This is not the behavior of a state widow. You can't. You can't appear on the screen without a tie, unshaven, you can't be a public official with broken teeth, you can't be 15 minutes late for work, you can't not be there 5 minutes after the incident, you can't be unhealthy. Many things are not allowed. We need great government officials, we need great performers, we need good, clear servants...
- But the servants need to be raised, taught, educated, clothed, state, paternal behavior is needed. Those people will come out of us.
- It is true, and the president himself should set an example.
- If the president sets that example, if the parties are really sincere and their struggle is not really for the seat (I'm not saying that they should swallow a big mistake, but they can always break the version of Georgia or Azerbaijan on our heads, and the sharp political events of the last days smelled bad, very bad), they can use their actions only and only for the interests of the nation. Whoever does not understand, let him understand that every coup or change of the president and the parliament means going back again, turning into chaos, and our neighbors are very interested in this, and none of them will want Armenia to become powerful quickly.
- Well, in the conditions of our unprecedented freedom, everyone who leaves will steal and take a lot with him. Property, opportunities, ideas. First of all, it will be taken from the government, and then from the motherland. Do you remember, during the Tomak and Gapo pogroms in 1898-99, the Sultan was beating his knees, cursing his fathers, saying, "They took my gold, they took my wealth." We should judge and think like him. They are taking my gold, they are taking my abilities and they will take them. They are our strength, they leave us, they weaken us. It will be against your conscience if you say: stay here, with me, share the misery with me. But we had you, didn't we, sons, we gave you school through deprivation? Isn't it true... My child didn't go to a sports school, you did, the state clothed and educated him. Isn't this a national thing, and now you're running away, you're a deserter, from wherever you run, from the border, from the battlefield, from your position, from the government, or from your homeland...
No, this is not a form. This form is not good. Taifa is...
- There are times when tribes and groups enter the scene. And they are joined together, their appetites are sharpened and they say: we are taking this house, and they rule over the residents or they don't care about the residents, because they are separate.
- So far, the dark operating force has thrown its fools and cowards into the open, that is, the parliament and the parties, "barking dogs in the middle of the picture" (let it not be offensive), and it is looting the country.
- In other words, it has become a circus, an environment for clowns, the people are occupied...
- Yes, the radio is turned on all day, it's like a theater performance. And he does nothing. One does not punch the nose of his shopkeeper (with whom he had a drink), the power is over those poor teachers...
- And it is possible that in the four paths of history we have lost our... control code, survival instinct.
- We lost, we didn't lose, let's not talk about it, because if we say we lost, we will lose again. Man tends to be governed, tends to defend himself, to defend himself well, to become a nation, and to grow a nation into a state. I don't like those desperate things, that the nation is old, this is a code imposed by the enemy. The Sultan, the Turk, described us as anishkans, that we are a nation of anishkans. I also answer. we are a nation of rulers, because the power is not mine and that is why I rebelled against the authorities. We are not really rulers, and we will have our own power. I will give the answer to that when we have our power and with that power we will respond to the stigma created by the enemy. There is God above, our behavior should be such that even the enemy will be surprised, admire what a beautiful sacrifice it was, what a right thing it was.
- And in order to stay, we need a state structure again and again, and not to continue to dope in place like this, with the mentality of a mob leader, looting, stealing, beating, killing. If yesterday we were afraid of the "Russian soldiers" you mentioned, today we can beat our own policemen, attack officials, open fire.
- Until now, no one has raised a finger against a Russian official, any Persian official who set foot in this country... until now, we honor Aghasu, after which 150 years have passed, we rank him among the gods for daring to kill the farrash who kidnapped his aunt's daughter. Here is Abovyan's talent, his genius in hindsight.
- And instead, we are ready to rip each other's throats, spill each other's guts (and unfortunately, the parliament has already turned into a back stage)...
- My and your beloved Vano (I already told about him a little while ago), loses on the street, there is a lot of anger in the city, and Vano's defeat comes from his kindness. I remember it was after the earthquake. Razmik Davoyan and I were in Mets Parni, we heard that there were incidents in Yerevan, clashes, which ended with the defeat of the employees of the State Automobile Inspection. It was very painful. Khujan had defeated the state structures. Karuits lost to Khujan, this was terrible, very... At that time it was still the Socialist Republic of Armenia, it was a semi-independent state for itself, whatever it was, how could it be done. When the state gets stronger, we will see that the authorities are getting stronger, we will quickly open the bonds of the people and let the people beat the state, not let the authorities be insolent.
- And if any action is taken or an action is expected by the police, then any party throws out its members and demands the resignation of the government. What should we do now? Either there will be a quasi-democracy, that is, the crowd will do whatever they want, or we will have to return to the strong hand in order to establish the state. Our desperate situation today dictates that.
- It was during the Kuwait war, Iraq was being bombed. In one of the cities of the USA, they attacked the Arab neighborhood on a people's initiative, smashed everything... And the presidential guard, immediately, very quickly parachuted to the scene and established order. Such quick orientation is needed, such speed of orientation is needed and we should not be afraid of violence.
- There have been such cases, but until now we have not been able to make a difference between the former and present states. Speculators have only multiplied, and again there is no one who thinks about the state. The recipe for defeating the enemy within must be thought of. Although in this case, you doubt whether the internal enemy is brought in from outside and incites enmity by order.
- Yes, it can. So they worked on us, they worked well, they coded it, put it on the machine, and we who are capable brag about how much we know. Every time, looking back after every phrase, we involuntarily wonder how much we spoke correctly...
- On what day are the rallies of the opposition, the so-called "National Alliance" taking place in the Theater (Freedom) Square? If you were there, if you were at the microphone, what would you say to our people? Of course, I don't see the need for Hrant Matevossian to speak at the rally, I don't see the need to call either, because in the last few years many sanctities have been erased, our more or less authority has been discredited, and today there is no man who can show a really smart way, show the truth, because there is only one truth (and we have as much truth as there are parties or how many people there are in Armenia), but, at least, your word at least to those who can are those who have ears to hear.
- This shouldn't have happened. This is the image of Attila in the square, this is the image of Attila raised, the destruction, the image of destruction... This should not be... Good and bad should not be mixed. The main thing was not to destroy, to mix good with bad. Here, perhaps, it is disrespecting their son, their parents, the elder and the younger, losing them under the grass with the enemy, but it shouldn't happen, but it is necessary to be mad. D. Demirchyan's speech is appropriate, isn't it: "Madness has gone mad" or "The fight is being fought"? Has that kind of expression. You have to go crazy, if war is crazy, you have to go really crazy to win...
- But today our history is coming to the surface again, and if we had learned our lessons by now, we would not have reached this day. here is a notorious example of this, both in June and July, and in the political situation of recent days.
- I have to agree with pain. A couple of times there was a call to this effect in the parliament, like a speech, a convincing and impressive call, but it was just a call because those who did it made the call to avoid responsibility for what happened. But really, there was a need for that honest speech, a need for a round table and an independent speech. I've felt a lot. In the square, people with state judgment can sit around a round table and present the subject, the problem. Everyone has his own attitude, his own thought, his own impression, and the description of the object will be complete from everyone's words, and it will be possible to proceed and act according to the image of the described object. This is the way to go step by step with the objective course of actions, the way and not like the sons of yesterday, perceiving our subjective opinions, our one-sided impressions as a complete description of the subject, attacking other opinions, not tolerating other opinions. It is truly unstatesmanlike behavior. To put it briefly, our God was cursed, our idols were taken away, and in the meantime, we would destroy the statue of Lenin with some hostility, but the image of dismantling that statue, demolishing it with demolition, is invading the square. Demolition is already becoming an active force, and after that it is just one step from Lenin to Shahumyan, and from Shahumyan to Andranik. Not erecting a statue of the first person, demolishing someone else leads to that and that's all it goes to. And look how they started cursing the dictator and spitting after taking him out of the tomb and that's it. We gladly met it with all the democrats of the former Union. After that, it went and went and no limit was set and it will go on and on... And in between, your Avetik Isahakyan and other living authorities will go and demand from them what they are not capable of. How do you want Hamo Sahyan to be standing next to you with a sword in his hand? Hamon can't because he is a 75-year-old man.
- But I think you agreed to the hall or the round table, which today is more mandatory than bread and air. I would like you to list those people, I myself do not want them to be leaders of any party or people connected to any party, because the parties in the parliament today manipulate party interest and personal ambitions.
- Disagreeing with you, I will first of all list the leaders of the party and the president of the republic as the leader of another party. And they were and are obliged to sit at the round table and talk among themselves, as honestly as possible, staying above party interests.
- Okay, then agree that people like you should be by their side.
- It is a fact, a very depressing fact, that even if the same Hovhannes Tumanyan was in the parliament, he would also turn into just a button, there would be no party behind him. In fact, parties are precise forms of parliamentary work. Humanity has not found another form of government, based on this, the rescue call should not be sent to the people, but to the parties, so that they can really stay above their narrow interests.
- It is a hopeless thing. Nothing will be affected. In my opinion, the parliament has really reached a dead end and it is time for either the parties to be dissolved or the parliament to be dissolved, which is not provided for by our constitution.
- In classical capitalist countries, in Europe and in general civilized countries that have established themselves as powers, for example in Spain, in the not-so-distant past, Franco put an end to civil strife, which is the cult of his people today. Such was Pinochet in Chile, Özal was in Turkey. These people were called dictators, but it is just a military force that comes to establish power. Unfortunately, we do not have that army, whose general would come, tie everyone's tongues, demand temporary silence, say three years. And ensure normal working condition and conditions for the working bureaucrats. We don't have that power... And the word dictator has different meanings. Therefore, they again impose from the outside that Stalin, Genghis Khan, is what we call a dictator, but that is not what we are talking about at all. Absolutely. What does the dictates of direct political life demand, what does the demand for the life of this country dictate? Let's say, what is the dictate of the demands of the city of Yerevan? An iron fist, an iron broom, I don't know, I'm saying it jokingly or honestly, so that the streets of this country, this Yerevan, will be cleaned of dirt and filth. In that case, who will call Hambardzum Galstyan a dictator? If they have to clean the streets, establish and maintain order with the help of a dictator, then so be it. This is what we are talking about. Levon Ter-Petrosyan should not be afraid of Western sponsors. Yes, yes, the image is America, Europe, civilized countries. They entered here and dictated: stay away from the dictator, but they have other fears, they want to stay away for other purposes, because they think that the dictator will rise again from Moscow, with a unified dictator of a united country, who has a huge threat on the whole world. In that case, of course, long live the national-liberation movements, maybe independent republics, let the dictatorship perish. This is what they say with these demands, and this refers to dictators in general, including local ones. Todor Zhivkov, Rashid, Snegur, Landsbergis or Ter-Petrosyan? they are also thrown, overthrown, throw the dictator in general, but in our case, when your country is destroyed, runs away from under your feet, what kind of dictatorship can we talk about on this stage of human tragedies. Your intelligence should make sure their codes don't work or your codes are caused by your country's requirements. Let your laws be derived from your country, your behavior a response to the daily requirements of your country.
- In one of the not-so-distant pages of our history, in a similar situation, Armenian Aram Manukyan corrected the situation in a very short period of time.
- He adapted the country to meet the demands of the enemy. Then there was another one too. After undermining the Bolshevik-Kemalian order on May Day, the Federation took over the country, there was a little federal terror, but it didn't do much and it was also the demand of the day.
- In this regard, from whom should we demand? The parliament is the mirror of our people, the people's elected representatives sit there and it is not in power either. And in general, I think the readers will be very interested in the opinion of Nahapet also as a deputy.
- I don't listen to stupid things with my natural inclinations. I can't hear. I get angry and lose my place in the face of stupidity, and my ears are opened by intelligent and balanced speeches, and accordingly, the intelligence that the parliament says is generated in me. But unfortunately, the way of parliamentary work is not the way (I say from my personal experience) where our reality, our speech would stand against us with its clear clarity. I don't know, by that magic every time the straightest states are distorted, and instead of a special formula, some impoverished, impoverished, distorted things are obtained, as if the responsibility was thrown on other forces. as if we hand it over to the centuries (the centuries are not people), we hand it over to the books (the books are not people)... We avoid it every time... It's just that it probably won't happen in the parliament, it's something for ten people to decide. Every now and then I think, if we had a king, and that king would gather his advisors around him. We would have such mutual fraternal love and fraternal tolerance towards each other that we would really choose the able-bodied and say goodbye to the parliament, separate - step aside and decide the policy of the Republic of Armenia.
- We cannot avoid the truth. Even when we had a kingdom, there was no lack of excitement among us.
- It is a time of legends, myths, it belongs to history.
- But we did not learn lessons from history, at least so that the mistakes are not repeated...
- Well, it is already formulaic, template knowledge. I only know that today it is already proven whether the general Vahan Mamikonyan was Armenian or not. Were the Bagratunis Armenians or not Armenians, Grigor Narekatsin...
... Did the Armenians build the Hripsime temple or did the Armenians not build it? Our current retreat into that past distances and deepens us. After a 600-year break, Alexander Tamanyan bowed and connected with the old masters of Ani... After 1000 years, Hovhannes Tumanyan proved and said that Narekatsi is Armenian. Is it true or not...
- Well, we have the same blood in our veins, the same genes, so...
- So, if we are talking about the past, we have responsibilities to the past, and the past is Tigran the Great and Khorenatsi, and to show that Khorenatsi is Armenian and you are his grandson...
- You, Nahapet, were a proxy of the president of the republic during the presidential elections, when was the last time you met him?
- You know, I'm an open person and I'll say it like that when it's been a long time.
- And recently, have you had the desire to talk, consult and share with him?
- You know, even if I were the president, so much interference from the supporters would irritate and annoy me, and I don't know if this is generally the right behavior for people who are close to political life. Is it the right way to approach, give advice, I don't know. Or maybe it's my personal shortcoming, or maybe I'm not the kind of person who understands the reality and understands the reality, so that I can approach and "friendly" force the president to go to the march, the way out, which will really be a salvation... I trusted the president, this can be written as a check, just like that. I trusted the president. Among the other presidential candidates, the so-called team, he seemed to me the most worthy. He seemed neither closed nor partisan, which left the doors open on all four sides to the concerns of the republic. I attributed the screams to the parties, and the accurate, live perceptions of any region of the pan-Armenian life of the republic to the president of the republic, who is the testimony of all of them in himself.
The opposition, political parties have their fault before the president of the republic. If the president symbolizes statehood with himself, and the parties are obliged to extinguish their party egoism a little, only speak when they have the answer within themselves, what they would do in place of the president in the given situation, not to enter the square with unanswered questions, not to be revolutionary for the sake of the revolution. it's scary. It destroyed our first republic, yes, yes, partisanship destroyed the first republic of Armenia and will destroy this republic as well, if we do not come to our senses.
I would probably like the president of the republic to take the republic to the brink of war, but not drag the country into war. However, we are at war, the loss of Artsakh is the loss of Armenia. And let's have the courage to say, under the absolute slogan of the Turk, that the existence of Armenia in the Caucasus, in general, is in doubt. There is no need to explain to anyone what this means for the whole world, for the Diaspora, for Armenians spread across the world. If there is Armenia, Armenia will be in the world, if there is no Armenia, there will be no Armenians and... None of your Dokmejyan, none of your Philpagens, none of your achievements before the world, none of your high-profile names can replace the concept of the Republic of Armenia.
This is the cradle, the cradle, the last homeland, the last piece of land of Armenians. If Armenia is endangered, the fate of all Armenians, all Armenians in the world will be absolutely endangered. Groups of Hamari gypsies wandering here and there, based on García Márquez's novel. Every Armenian politician, whose words and actions find a response, movement, materializes in this country, he is obliged to think about this country as a president, even if he is a choba in his situation...
- But it is because of our incompetence that we cannot do anything to the enemy outside, we are eating each other inside. Although, unfortunately, I have to admit that we all see that the creeping inside is just an expectation of a chair. Will Shahumyan fall, will he not fall, will Karabakh fall or not...
- I don't want to believe...
- But it is so. The people who were together 1-2 years ago, today were divided into parts just because of party beliefs, and what they do not share today will be our lost homeland tomorrow... And as it happened for centuries, it is the same today. We don't like a leader, we don't like a king, we don't like a president. We do not accept that if yesterday he was a student with us or a partner, not to mention a friend of the struggle, today he has become the president. We do not accept our yesterday's professor for the post of president.
- Didn't our ancient kings do the right thing, connecting their roots with the ancient Chenats, mythical world? The Arshakunis associated themselves with some mythical world, perhaps they came from Urartu. The Bagratunis considered themselves Hebrews because they had already appeared in a Christian country and derived their origins from Christian origins. If there were any of them, any of them, who would leave?
- In other words, there is no "blessing owner" for the owners of the house...?
- Yes, people always do that. Let's take the Sultan, let's say his roots came from 1200-1300s, through legends, their roots were removed through the country and time. But what wonderful guys there are, isn't it? For example, in the United States, one, a wonderful, a wonderful boy, who was a bomber pilot, participated in the war, was wounded, the plane fell into the sea, he was saved by chance... Otherwise, by soaring like this, it comes out that I am one of you and that I am the president... Isn't it wonderful, isn't it wonderful... One of us there? And then, when he is supposed to be there and sees that mouths have been opened, that they are going to talk about how you are going to manage us, old man, he says: I will get a certificate from the doctor that my wife is not unhappy with me...
- It's the US version.
Now that explosion has passed, we need to preserve it, we need to strengthen it with everyone, with everything, and I would not like to think that this is just a chair fight, but...
- The survivors of Andranik Tsarukyan, our friend to all of us, are left with something that reaches the point of cruelty. He says: when the Turk raised the yataghan in 1915, he did not ask if you were a Catholic or an apostolic, were you rich or poor, were you an ambassador or a commoner, were you a renegade, an Aintap or a Kilikian? Didn't ask anything. Massacred the entire nation equally. The same threat hangs over all of us today, and it would take at least a fool, and at most a vile traitor, to not find the edge of reconciliation. The enemy is using this and waiting for more. I said above that many people are not sincere because many, many people talk in vain. In the old communist times, 10-15 years ago, from my work, from my situation, from my impressions, let me say: during meetings at the university or other places, once in a while I caught myself speaking on behalf of the KGB, so that they would take my word as a citizen of the country to where it is needed. And they, in turn, should take into account that one cannot be so naive, otherwise the country will be destroyed. I used to talk to the Russians almost as a matter of course, for God's sake... Now, many people in our parliament are frowning, talking about the matter, not understanding that today there is no Russian, that they are the ones in charge of the country, and everyone's behavior must be dictated by the condition of their father, the condition of the country's patriarch, the country's owner. I am very sorry and afraid that there is still a refugee among many people. In a recent interview, I said that, nevertheless, he kept twenty liters of fuel for escape. I am afraid that many people will flee. I am afraid that men standing on this land will not live and go to the edge of death, much more, as political scientists, they will stand in a position not to back down, if they are going to kill, they will kill. And be sure from me that they will not kill. We gave Shahumyan for nothing. We gave the silver in vain. I am going to say something cruel and, unfortunately, unusual for our ears, the people of Shahumyan should have stood up and been slaughtered, this is a good defeat in terms of war tactics and tactics. The enemy's strategy is built on it. to harass, to run away, to run away from here, from the Caucasus, to empty the Caucasus. That's exactly what is written on their flag. Tserents wrote this before the Berlin Assembly in 1879, and published the magazine "Experiment".
- We touched on many issues, Nahapet. However, I can't help but ask you this question. What question worries the novelist Hrant Matevossian today?
- The issue of Karabakh, the issue of the Republic of Armenia, the Armenian people in general, staying here, the issue of the future of Armenia, the issue of today... By not answering today's question here, by taking a step back here today, I am betraying tomorrow's Armenia... Tomorrow will be too late, tomorrow I will be barking from California and elsewhere, from my safe or unsafe situation, about yesterday, that today is today... And it will already be too late. we barked a lot from afar. we barked from afar for yesterday, we howled and howled yesterday. They have already become questions of history. stories have been written... Today we face reality and...
- What would Hrant Matevossian like to do in literature?
- In today's dark storm, I would like to throw a regular, orderly, balanced text into the square, as if to say, Saryan's "Flowers" (during the riots) without flowers. I want to post such a text. I don't know, it would be self-satisfaction, perhaps, to say that this is patriotism. it may not be patriotism, but it is patriotism, we must say, what is worth protecting...
- In other words, let's go back to the saying that every person should do what he can to build the country.
- Yes, Panjuni should be thrown out of the square. As they used to say at the beginning of the movement, those who fight for just a cry. A squirm at the lap, and in many cases, what nerves were needed to say: nothing, that will happen. Then we will separate the good from the bad. If we say that this case is a case of human sacrifice, what business does this scum have here...
- On your table are the classics of our painting, yesterday and today, history itself was material, these people reached us, and what will remain will be our culture. It would be good, of course, to stay with borders and land...
- Our culture, what it is, is the real Armenia, they are the voices of the real Armenia... Today's cultural and political figures, following the example of their ancestors and contemporaries, are obliged to speak our word, say our word, as our elders were able to distinguish. our Saryan, our Hakob (Hakobyan), our Surenyans have succeeded, so we are obliged to separate our words and not dance to someone else's duduk. under this non-dancing, even the enemy will consider us as friends when he sees that we speak our word, when he sees that we stand firmly on our ground, firmly with the conviction to break the nose and the mind.
...A tragedy is unfolding in the street, a historical novel is unfolding, blessed are those who have healthy eyes and can read. Of course, we are all injured, all of our lives are in danger, but if we can, we must first save these boys, this child....It's not really time for literature...
- Come, let's get back to the beginning, Nahapet, that is, everyone should do their job, if you are a farmer, cultivate your land, if you are a farmer, cultivate your field, do your work so that, as Hrant Matevossian told the Armenian, "...This country becomes a country...".
The conversation was moderated by Vanush Shermazanyan
"Republic of Armenia", 20-21.08.1992.