Meeting at YSU, 1984. September 28
Hr. Matevosyan -...I can talk for five minutes, I can talk for the rest of my life and still not find the answer to the questions that concern me...
But if I say briefly, according to my direct impression, photo impression, the land of Tallinn could be seen from the left wing of the plane - maybe it was Tallinn, I don't know - my mind was still on the Kazbeks, I thought that I would have to see the country one by one, I would see Aragats once more, and we would pass by Aragats and, ruined, poor, lost under the web of roads, both with civilization and history, and, what am I? I know, by chemistry, the poor soil, which has been decayed for centuries. I don't say much... if you call its photographer-recorder. I will thank you again...
Where should I start, tell me to start...
Let me start with what I had to start with.
Thanks to those who gave us the opportunity to sit in the same car with William Saroyan and go to Garni-Geghard. He said: Hrand Matevossian, what did you write with what desire did you start writing? I didn't understand what he was saying. He said: when I started writing, I would think that I would travel the world. Because it was autumn and I was under the impression of being a tourist, I thought that "traveling" the world was about hunting. I didn't know it was about defamation and turning the course of life upside down. Then I began to understand, I saw that a free citizen of a free country is in his opinions. a free citizen can really talk about defaming the world, changing the course of the world. My desires were not so aggressive...
We used to mow grass with my father in Sarum. Then we were tired. It was such a good age indeed. We were like friends. He was about fifty years old, I was twenty-three, I was only twenty-three years old. It was the age of friendship. We were coming from the mountain tired. Even at that time, the collective farm was made into a sovkhoz. Thus, they had to cut the property of the collective farmers a little... They cut it so much, and they were so disgusted with the property that now they are asked to keep livestock, and they don't. They say: why should we keep it... You keep it, we'll eat it too...
The impressions were still fresh, the sweetness of private property was still in their mouths: when you have a horse and you love your horse, you have a cow, you have a calf... They had just been deprived of all that and they were crying for those losses. The horse, he took his horse, he had to take the horse, he gave it to another village for a couple of pennies. Then, the horse came back to give birth. He says that when the horse came and stood at the door, my father was a bit of a tough person, not a sentimental person, he says that he cried in the presence of my mother... He said that he will not give my horse back either... But he was deprived of the horse... He said: I will write and they will allow me to keep a horse again. Thus, he looked suspiciously, "Who are you to change the charter, to change the model charter of the kolkhoz and give me a horse...
Indeed, my most aggressive desire, my most intense desire, as far as I have written, was to get my father's horse back. It became, in my opinion, the basis of an allusion, and those more cowardly than I made the allusion famous, putting on it all the things they thought about it... It was the famous "Ahnidzor" allusion, which became a fire to my head, and at the same time pushed me, the so-called forefront of literature... I should have been third, in the safer, unnoticed ranks of writers... And I could easily and calmly provide for my family's cares: to clothe my wife, to make my children beautiful to keep, des-den... It would be a little bit better like that... Anyway. What happened, happened, I have no regrets...
Where should I start, tell me to start. I haven't started yet.
I was born in a barn. Time was poor, and I was born in a barn, I was born in a barn... It's in one of my novels. The upper part of the barn was given to us, my father, my mother, the newly born Hrant Matevossian, and the lower part was given to the buffaloes. Maybe that's where I got my buffalo from. Maybe someday I'll write about the buffalo. I don't know...
After that, she ran away every time, she didn't want to adapt to the new life here, because, in her opinion, there was a little brighter life in the city village far away, in the village of Sanahin. He did not want to come to terms with the poor life of this deaf village. every time he ran away... And my poor husband every time, that ugly, huh?, holding the baby... to say that I was cute when I was a child... There was an Epraksya in the Writers' Union. She was crazy... But she was a very good woman. He used to say that I was very cute when I was little, they changed me in the crib...
I may have been pretty when I was young, I may have been ugly, I don't know, but my poor husband, holding that ugly baby, went to all the busty women in the neighborhood... Yes, he went to the women with children, and they fed me. I'm from there, they were my mother as a group...
The war made men scarce, and surprisingly the people of the village community bonded together. My impression was that everyone was everyone's father and everyone was everyone's mother. Such a beautiful community was created. it was an atmosphere of love. Either I was a poet or I am still a poet and I think that there was such a community. In all cases, they gave me the opportunity to think that it was really a community connected by love... I am trying to present myself with the chronicle of that community... I can recall random incidents from my life and say what I like about literature. The end, in a word, I am their child, the child of those poor parents, the child of deprived, orphaned women...
After that, I have already seen many stories, I have been present at many luxurious tables, in all cases I have collected what was dear to me...
Aners, my wife's father, told about a beautiful villager Gerasim Atajanyan, a heroic existence. Gerasim was an ordinary master of the copper mines, communicating with the French, he knew a little French, he knew French, he was blind in one eye, fell and was not drafted for that reason... But when, after the Batum consultation, Armenia was given ten thousand square kilometers of space, when the people were crammed into this small cage from all sides - now we have thirty thousand kilometers - the people of Zangezur resisted, and they resisted in Ghapan. Under the leadership of Gerasim Atajanyan. We even managed to fight in a couple of places without famous commanders, at least the Ghapan region is in the territory of Armenia today. Then he retreated, went to Paris, then cut ties, he knows that he has no way back here. But the child fell ill with a disease that all of us, who love a little foreign words, call nostalgia, a nostalgic disease, that is, a patriotic disease that will be cured or not cured only in the mountains of the homeland. This man had to cross the border secretly and bring the child to the mountains of Zangezur for treatment for three years, during the fifteen-sixteen-seventeen years of the child's maturity. During the last return, he was shot in Araks, the child grew up, returned here, now lives in Lusakert. Gerasim Atajanyan kept his homeland and bequeathed it to me. I say: I am the heir of those poor people, those heroes, that difficult life. I want to tell about them. I want to be their writer. I want to be their recorder. And of course, in literature, I should also choose, consider mine what is about them or roughly about them. And of course, more than luxurious books, Bibles and encyclopedias, I should have seen Luke's testimony about Simon, Simon, who came and wished that one of his feet was washed and he was sleeping now, even if he was under a sackcloth, under a heavy load... But his burden was taken off his shoulders, the cross was given to his sackcloth, saying, "You are a good bearer, you are a good bearer, it will be good for Christ's shoulder" You take the cross, Golgotha, because our princes' shoulders are not for the cross, Christ himself is a thin boy, he cannot bear it. Here, this Simon's back is also very suitable to carry someone else's cross. In the Gospel, I noticed Luke's Simon...
In the wonderful Axel Bakunts' novel "Tigranuhi"... Who has read it? Who knows? It is great literature. Vasil in the novel "The Lady of Tigran" - this character was parodied and stylized a little - as if Vasil kept a diary, Vasil's diary was found by Axel Bakunts...
Edward Isabekyan - It's a terrible thing...
Hrant Matevossian - Huh... Huh? It is great literature. Vasili's ignorant diary full of typos is about Tigranuh. She is a girl and she was supposed to become a girl, once something like a light smile appeared in her eyes, a girlish joy appeared in her... Her brother, her big brother, is an orphan, right? A brother is a brother, a brother's wife is also a brother's wife - here the brothers are from the cooperative for him, maybe from somewhere, yes, there are 36 cooperatives in Armenia - he bought shoes from the cooperative's store for him, who was raiding in the neighbor's house, gathering ears of corn in the fields. And he had to take those shoes to the orphan. And the first feminine-girlish joy appears in her eyes and does not even take place, because her brother's wife takes it from her hand and keeps it in the chest. I noticed this "Tigran girl".
I can say "Humble girl", "Humble girl" testify. There is! Once, something like light love splashed-splattered-splattered in this girl, when behind the stage - they had set up a village stage - she took her hand, said "humble", said "let me", and her voice trembled. These are Axel's pointers.
These are my favorite things.
Let me say that what I am writing has not been done at all in literature, in ancient literature, it will not be very correct. But in all cases, the attitude is not what mine should be... This new literature of compassion is a completely new phenomenon in world literature. Now you will say the attitude of Pushkin to poor Yevgeny from "Copper Horseman" or Akaki Akakievich from "Overcoat". You will do exactly what you say. But in all cases, you should look at him from the height of the prince and there is a barbaric attitude towards the poor man, who can only be sympathized with, but can he be accepted in the princely halls as an equal brother, sit behind him equally? No. You will say: you came too close, go a little further away, as one of our Central Committee stone-bearers used to say: let's be closer and closer, but when you came too close, he said: you took too much flavor, go a little further away. There was such a thing.§Ñìåðòü Èâàíà Èëüè÷à¦*- wonderful, wonderful, in that masterpiece of world literature there was a Gerasim, in a white shirt, he says:áåëàÿ ðóáàøêà, ÷èñòûå ïðåêðàñíûå çóáû, âñåãäà
ìèëàÿ** and was smilingâñåãäà ãîòîâíîñòüþ***...
And this cleared up the confusion of Ivan Ilyich, who seems to feel his feet at ease and his heart at ease when his feet are on Gerasim's shoulder. For hours, this man puts his feet on Gerasim's shoulders and dozes off. Bakhtin says with wonderful emphasis that "§âíóòðè íå îñâåùåí¦Gerasim. Not really lit inside. It's left§áåëàÿ ðóáàøêà, ïðåêðàñíûå ÷èñòûå çóáû¦****:
And Gerasim is always ready. If you want to know correctly, Tolstoy's huge problem is precisely that he knows that this attitude will not be the same as our attitude towards the peasantry, but he could not break the connection... Mural can accept, he can give, he could give a ruble and ask for fifty kopecks back, but to destroy this life, to destroy his life and the lives of those around him, to cut the shackles and say: here, come, you you are Scythians, you are savages, you are revolutionaries, come, tear down our buildings, because this is not life, this is the world of opposites, this is the society of salt exploitation and, as far as I know, your society of humble exploitation. It doesn't do that. Caper cut the ties with difficulty. Or at least it couldn't cut it. It was a new attitude.
Now it seems like I'm speaking in a familiar scenario, I've written a little about it, but may God give you the strength to get up as soon as you get up and immediately improvise your speech. Charents has a magnificent work, "Elegy written in Venice". Against Isahakyan. It's fair to say check against it. Indeed, it should be so. Maybe that is the Isahakyan of his perception. But no, God's fault. It's a very good job, though. There's one thing to highlight, just plain old salty attitude. By deepening, emphasizing, elevating in this way, he says: he wanted his Arpachai, he wanted his goodwill, he wanted his beauty, and
The other fields are not wet and dry.
And in the fields it is a good friend.
I emphasize Gras-ap.
A rotten, muddy shirt,
The soul is always mute, silent.
I say, is the soul really dumb or not, is it dumb or not?
The representative of the wonderful French culture - he, Saint-Exuper, was to become the symbol of our attitude in the 20th century, Saint-Exuper, when the emigrating Jews were transported in freight wagons, which this country is very familiar with, cattle wagons filled with people, all on top of each other, one head on the other's belly, sleeping, the children here and there, night, what do I know, imagine everyone - this is what Saint-Exupery says: in the end they will endure, they will go, they will live - my pain is not for them, my pain is for the murdered Mozart among them. My pain is for Mozart killed in man.
I want to discover that people, those people whose children I consider myself, to discover Mozart among those people, to bring him out here... If I live long and write a lot and can humanize that attitude a little, then it is appropriate. Of course I'm nobody. Every minute even the most famous writer - not here, in America - can be caught by the hand and killed. This is not what it's about.
Politics, wars are started by others. But the atmosphere in which these politicians and war-starters live is ultimately created by the writers. Indeed, the responsibility of culture in the fate of the world is enormous. Now tell me, what is it about your tribe that was not, what is the culture brought by the whole little tribe that was not able to change anything in the world? In all cases, I consider the responsibility of the hectare here to be our culture here, our culture, our people here, ours... God willing, that we can break the borders and our voice be heard in the Union, abroad, I don't know where else... Our contribution to world culture is the problem. But in any case, this thirty thousand square kilometer space, which is not small and we are not a small nation, we are the twenty-fifth-twenty-sixth nation of the world, within our limits of this culture, within our current limits, if we can humanize this space and atmosphere, morality, the atmosphere of respect for people, I will feel completely satisfied...
Tell me what else to say, I'll say it.
Tell me...
It would be more correct if you say verbally, I will answer.
What did he write?
Levon Mkrtchyan - Write the questions in Armenian.
Hrant Matevossian - Why don't they know that I know Russian?
He says, "Do you use biblical motifs in your literature?"
Consciously, no. But when you see what I have seen, it catches there... Another time there was even such a word. it seemed like I was taking those things from the Bible in particular. But it's not like that. It's just that the atmosphere of the Bible, the background of the action of the books of the Bible, and the background of the life I live are the same. It was the same life that just changed before our eyes in the 60s, and until then we lived just the same, the same life. In Axel's words, the years were simply different leaves on the same tree. That is why I say that Tolstoy's situation was not difficult. he really lived and created in the same time, but I was born in one time, moved to another time... I moved to a completely different time... The revolution didn't happen in 17, the revolution happened in the war. The revolution in this country was the revolution of the "zhigulis" and not the revolutionary revolution. A different world has really emerged that I barely understand. If you understand...
- How many groups are there in the Union of Writers?
- There are two groups in the Union of Writers, one is me, the rest are all...
- What do you think about the opinions that were expressed about your work today?
- If I say now, and you accuse me of coquetry, you will not be right. I don't hear. I don't really listen when they talk about me, I'm drowning, I don't listen. As much as anyone - imagine such a beautiful dead person - any dead person can hear a word of praise about him, so can I. I'm totally drowning... I can't really hear.
Levon Mkrtchyan - But still, it's nice, isn't it?
Hrant Matevossian - That's why they open the window for the dead so that a good wind blows. Believe me I can't.
- What do you think about the Russian translations of your work?
- I don't consider this to be my business, as in the beginning, as well as now. In the end, it is the question of Russian culture, let them think to what extent their language is becoming cloudy or rigid, opening up. That is the problem of Russian criticism. And we should ask ourselves this same question when they make so many stupid, disgusting translations, and fill Armenian literature with disgusting translations made even by great authors. When we translate and publish Louis Aragon or Marquez, or thirty-two random African poets at once with such quality, we pollute our heads and our pages, our precious pages.
A little bit, excuse me, I like that my translation is, so to speak, a well-established translation. Although I still get hurt when I encounter small mistakes.
In all cases, I say that it is not my question, it is their question. So much for something. I have overcome the misconception of the first period that, here I am, I have reached Moscow, and I am going to the Kremlin, that this is Tsar-Kolokol, that this is Tsar-Pushka, that this is what recognized me in Russia... That attitude has already been overcome, and that misconception has already been truly overcome. I just got lucky. My translator is not a bad translator... a good translator. As a translation, as a language, I think it can be considered accomplished, because I also know what translation is. all words are brought here, all thoughts are brought here, but the text does not breathe. Anahit Bayandur's text breathes. They are mistakes - they are not mistakes, but it is a language that, you see, has a mind that exists. Now others want him to translate for them too, so that maybe the translation will be successful... They think that it is from the translator alone... I think so too. let him translate and let him be...
- Don't you think that Matevosyan is not a rural writer?
- The question, the term should be clarified from the beginning, when such an argument was made. CarefullyäåðåâåíùèêThe Russians put the word "*****" in quotation marks. We had this word like many others, in Western-Armenian terms. By chance, I did not remember them, because there is a word from the time of Srvandztyan, Msho Gegham, and others, there is the word "village writer", there is the one representing the village, the province. And there was a police attitude towards rural writers, the unenlightened. Sometimes there was also sympathy and sympathy that he would describe the province and describe the poor and deaf things in the province...
If the questions were asked correctly from the beginning, such shades would not have arisen, and today you would not think that rural geography is something backward... In any case, I think that if the question is asked well, very well, everything is clear. Let me say this simply: if my literature turns out to be very good literature, then it should not be called "city writer" and "village writer" and similar things. In all cases, it is not. After finding the essence, such questions do not arise: is it about the city, is it about the village... Although now the situation of writers about the village is also very difficult, because something else is coming that is speculative in its own way. that background, that environment in which they, those people live and work, is also non-disappearing. It becomes a kind of relic, that never-fading-disappearing background. Those people, that cow, that khachkar, that flower, that environment where people live, that doesn't matter either. You have to save it. The speculative question brings... And apparently, it is necessary to eliminate it, because we are the last to know about that disappearing world, that disappearing rural world... I do not consider Vasiliy Belov's book "Lad" to be a coincidence, in which he deprived himself of purely artistic tendencies. the writer went for purely ethnographic-ethnographic research and created that book, what we had at the hands of Hakob Mndzuri, although not in such a clean condition, but what Mndzuri brought is still a lot for us and it should be for you... Unfortunately, we are not smart enough to have such literature propaganda. The hall is also not healthy enough to be a full hall. I envy the Russian hall... it's not about this hall. from the great reading hall, from the Carpathians, Yerevan to I don't know where... We are talking about that wonderful people...
– Are there prototypes of your heroes?
– This is always the case. It's not possible without prototypes. Did you answer?
– Of the modern writers, who is close to you in spirit?******
- To tell the truth, Tolstoy remains the most modern for me. No, I'm not saying it for the sake of furor. At one time, I really liked those authors who leave something with a question mark or leave the question, the problem unexplained. But now, already when I feel defeated, also by the complications of this huge world, I like those authors who stand like God at the source of life and say: let there be light, and there is light, they say: this is evil, this is good... that's it. I already like Tumanyan, I like Tolstoy. Adults like it. Which of the authors of the devil and destroyer - although, sin God, such a thing cannot be - from whom I smell the devil and destroyer, I am really wary, I am afraid. But such, let me say both unquoted, "the destroyer and the devil" and the "revolutionary" take the best from those who really do not have the power of that god, Tolstoy's god, to stand at the source of life and say: let there be light, and let there be light... This is purely a lack of their power and not their direction. Satanic orientation or I don't know what... Like that.
I answered that too...
Levon Mkrtchyan - So, what's better, existentialism or a child?
- Ето из моей повести, Lev Nikitich, if you can, give birth to existentialism, it's better, and if you can't give birth to existentialism, then it's better to give birth to a child, in my opinion. It's beautiful. But stay there, in the middle - it's scary.*******
We will lose one child, one wonderful parent, and we will not find one existentialist.
– You are my favorite, dear writer... Who is your favorite writer? What can you say about Bulgakov, Shukshin, Aitmatov?********
- There really was such a thing. from world literature I like my peers, boys of my generation.
...Where do I start? Let me start with Vysotsky, whose love entered through my daughter, and whom I consider a titanic character.
Among the boys of my generation, Shukshin remains the best symbol for me. Not only that he was able to catch that elusive, fleeting, as I say, that evasive thing, which is called the national spirit and whether it is there or not, he was able to catch it, he was able to have it. Most of all, Shukshin was able to approach the unknown-unfamiliar material. Nobody knows where we're going. But Shukshin was able to get closer to that deceiver, that evasive person who pushes our personality towards an unknown goal. And as I go, I see that we lost a titanic existence to Shukshin. I regret for him that he worked in cinema, cinema took a lot of strength from him, I regret that he died untimely... With him, we can say, our literature made a huge contribution to the literature of the world.
Did you answer with honor?
From the Hall - Talk about Aitmatov.
Hrant Matevossian - We talked about delicate things. Shukshinyan, let's say, about impressionism, about hunting the elusive, the fleeting, the fugitive... After that, talking about Aitmatov, Aitmatov is rude. Here, it is a bit more literary compared to that "hunting the elusive". Like, he makes a form, he knows how to tear two drops of tears, he knows how to start, he knows how to set a climax, he definitely kills the first person and he is wonderfully able to fill the form he made. At first, I was in internal opposition to that thing in general, but now I will not give the prescription for literature, he gave his prescription and he creates his literature, which has the biggest hall in the world. But it cannot be considered first-rate, first-rate literature, compared to the same Bulgakov, Shukshin, Faulkner, Andrei Bitov, it is not. It should be seen from behind them, as there are second-in-commands in the Politburo, right?
I wanted to gossip about William Saroyan, I wanted to gossip about Chingiz Aitmatov. I said: his work is very perfect, his work is very round, very understandable, very closed, very finished, I don't know, I was looking for something so that he would understand, I said: his work is like an egg, it is an egg. He said: I have to tell you something: the egg is salty... Really salty. The last work, "И дрожение века длится день********" is, in any case, a fantasy series. He came from that, he was also able to do the other, he described the domestic element wonderfully and behind it he has the image of a people's person, the image of an old Kazakh, and in all cases he was able to bring his problems, his purely Central Asian problems, to the public and make others answer. My impression. when I read, it's enough, he said, it's enough, there will be no confrontation in the world. Their leaders will read, our leaders will read, they will gather for the fact that it is not allowed for everyone to play with the luck of the world for their selfish gain. More precisely, the hero there is fear, they are afraid of each other, we are afraid of them, they are afraid of us, and in between they may tear the country apart, and everyone will take their share, take them to one side... I thought that you can have such romance with Chingiz's books, they have such faith. I thought they would read it, and his work would have an impact on the improvement of this international atmosphere... In any case, he should never forget that whoever he wants to be, no matter who he wants to be, the best, as far as I know, the writer of the small people, whether he has two readers or two million, he should not forget in any case, and it should be the goal of all of us to be able to influence us and their leaders, so that the country does not break into pieces, they say: there are people there, and they also say: people are here too... Like that.
Levon Mkrtchyan - There is a question: "Has there been any shocking incident in your life?"
Hrant Matevossian - There was one such incident, but to be honest, it cannot be considered an incident, because this incident has been going on for twenty-five years. that's my getting married.
- What is your opinion about today's Armenian cinema?
- I have a very bad opinion. I have a very, very bad opinion, a very sad opinion. I have a very bad opinion. I think it would be the most powerful weapon of our national unity, our national integrity in our hands, but there is no such weapon today... Not even a knife. There is no such thing as a kitchen knife. It is unfortunate that this is the case. We have no other weapons. We have no diplomacy. What don't we have? We have no international rights. The Turks had given the right to a division under the Batumi Treaty. we don't have that division either. We have a film and the right to be translated and translated. And to lose that wonderful weapon... It is a very painful loss. If you don't believe it, look at Georgian cinema. What does our whole country think about Georgia and what does it think about us? Cinema is a weapon in their hands, not a weapon in our hands. That's what I'm saying.
- What do you think about the films "Autumn Sun" and "Ter" based on your works?
- If you would express yourself, it would be more correct. My attitude is a bit subjective, because I thought that with such things I would give weapons to the people, and that weapon did not materialize... I look at it from that point of view. Now if you say that they don't need anything, maybe my attitude is very negative, personally very bad. Maybe they represent some value, who knows what to say, I don't like them.
I like Federico Fellini, Andrei Tarkovsky, I like Tarkovsky's first period, Rublev. We like our Roma Balayan, who made three wonderful films in the Ukrainian studio.
Among our works, I like a couple of Henrik Malyan's works. Mine is not. I am much stricter with mine than others.
Like that.
- What is your opinion about the performance of "Neutral Zone"?
- If you talk about me, I will be very pleased. And I have witnesses here who know that I did not watch the play "Neutral Zone" on television. I didn't look. And now there is this. It has become a disease in me in general. "The Station" was staged on TV, I could not watch it.
I swear, Henrik Malyan is a witness, I saw "We are, our mountains" after five years. They told me, they gave me quotes, I said maybe it's good, but after five years I was able to come to terms with that reality. I have a hard time getting along.
After all, that guy is already dead, you can't talk about him.
- Do you consider "Tashkent" a transition in your language thinking? Will the book version be similar to the magazine version?
- "Tashkend" had a little, a little misfortune, it had to be published, published with its framework, with its side stories. And then there would be no quarrels about "Tashkend". Although, I think so... That's the only case that if you all stand up and curse, I'll have to defend. I really like that work. It's a good job. There are many truths and many tragedies, versions of the same tragedy, tragedies destroying each other. It's not eclectic, that is, it's the right thing to do. There is a bit of boredom at the end. I was also avoiding it, I didn't know how to close it. Don't give up, right?
Levon Mkrtchyan - Don't give up even at the beginning.
Hrant Matevossian - Tell me, tell me, tell me...
Levon Mkrtchyan - These are fresh questions, fresh.
Hrant Matevossian - This question is about Paruyr Sevak. "You mentioned this issue in the union press, but if possible, again. What do you think about Paruyr Sevak's poem "Silent Bell Tower" and his poetry in general?
First, about the loss. We lost one of the unique people of the republic. If there was, I would go to him in my hour of need. The thinking he brought, the freedom he brought, the straightness of his step, the strength... We feel the lack of that character: fearless, bold, endlessly dissatisfied with himself and dissatisfied with us, that rebellious character... It is a pity to lose him like that. The same about his poetry. I think that he was the child of a nation that had lost all its abilities, which knew that only through literature can new achievements and new returns be made. And he really tried to shake up this old and wonderful language, this culture, so that along with the culture, the thinking of the people would also be shaken up, so that this people would not be so inept and toothless in front of the world, as it is now.
I'll tell you my opinion, did you hear me? What did I say about him in the union press? I said that it is possible to write about the mountain, I said that I personally am not able, because every time I touch on that question, I get physically sick. Another? I can also say that Tumanyan could not. Tumanyan, the witness of the massacre, who lost his son, lost his brothers, and put the girls among the typhus fighters on the front of the massacre, could not. He wrote a piece called "Respite", I don't consider "Musadagh" a success.
And at that time he said, what about Paruyr Sevak's "Silent Bell Tower"? I would also like to say: Paruyr Sevak's success in the work of Paruyr Sevak is not the "Silent Bell Tower", others are the successes. But there is a common national symbol that we say: Masis, we all howl and cry, when we say "Eghern", we say that in the year 15 we were tortured, killed, slaughtered, we howl and cry. It is just our symbol, it is not understood by anyone else. Should you recreate that symbol? We will put this literature in front of the French, what will happen?
"Rose" is our national pride, and I, being a teenager at that time, sweated when I saw that the French made one volume out of two volumes, and I don't know how many copies were sold and what kind of response it had. You can't just use our symbols. I, the author, am obliged to create my alphabet again, the alphabet of pain, the alphabet of heroism, and not to say Andranik, and it is already a ready-made hero, not to say "Turk", and as if it is already the word of evil. The world is not ready for that. The Turk has so many friends in the world, he has many friends. They have diplomats, they spend people's money in Europe, they have fun with women. The Turk has so many friends in Europe, and you say "Turk-villain". No, the Turk is not a villain. Not at all. You are pathetic in front of him. The evil deeds of the Turk must also be proven and symbolized. You have to create the "villain Turk", you have to recreate the Andranik general again, that is, as in normal literature, you have to recreate your alphabet, your symbolism. And this is how you will make your wonderful transition, trade in your literature. And are those characters created? One character is really created that we're really ready for: the use of a folk motif. In all other cases there is a discount. If this issue has been discussed here, I will say it right away. if you have put the question of Ekhern to be discussed, you should discuss it from the depth and essence, starting with the activities of the "Aksakov" company, examining the problems of Pan-Slav-Pan-Slavism, and together with it raising the problem of Pan-Turkism, the birth of Pan-Slavism, raising and examining the stories of international diplomacy, you should bring it to the Maidan... Which neither he did, nor I did, nor anyone else. Armenian historian and historian, not a huge group of historians. No one else did. That problem is not solved.
...Now tell me about Tolstoy. stands at the source of light. I feel the need for that creator of titanic power. Let it stand in the foreground and really illuminate, evil in black, good in bright colors, this is the ekhern for the creator, me, Hrant Matevossian. I see that he is the master indeed. I am not able to stand on this height and illuminate like this, so that your soul does not get polluted - because it gets polluted every time there are incomplete questions and not a picture of any finished object and events and relationships is seen - so that your soul does not get polluted, but comes out enlightened. In Tumanyan's "Anoush" and in all of Tumanyan's work, there is not a single lucky Armenian character, all are persecutors, all are victims. But you come out enlightened, because the work is completely done, because you bring the joy of art, you bring Tumanyan out... Here, as Tumanyan, let's stand behind the problem of Ekhern. I can't. I don't think Paruyr can do it either. This is my answer.
Levon Mkrtchyan - Hrant, there is a very difficult question here.
Hrant Matevossian - I am again in the same situation as I was a little while ago. "Your opinion on the outcome of the Karpov-Kasparov match."
I have questions again. I don't know. I heard rumors that a whole hall of grandmasters sits there. One's name is "horse". Let's say that he, if we say that he has to take these steps, this "horse" comes out. Their protégé does the horse step.
Things like that occurred to me, I want to take Kasparov, to be honest. This is it. First of all, because he is addressed as a hero, a champion, it will be nice to hear that voice. Then, to tell the truth, my attitude was different, categorically different, towards those who were cut off from Armenian culture, those who lost their language. It was completely different. It's different now, of course. It would be nice if we were dealing with a whole tribe. But the fact of Saroyan changed me completely. I gave a speech at Saroyan's jubilee evening, and again I was katsukam, I was both here and there. I said, "Welcome to Armenian culture, but it's a country itself, it's really an Armenian writer, isn't it?" Then. Another is Michael Arlen Jr.'s Journey to Ararat. He wrote a powerful book. A renegade son of a renegade father, eh? We had Guyumchyan, what Gyumchyan? Wrote the novel "The Green Hood". He is from Istanbul, he escaped... Let's not blame these escapees. it is not easy to be in the shoes of an Armenian forever, to be in Avetis Aleksanyan's condition. He went like that, he went to search for his human happiness. Here, the book of Michael Arlen's journey "To Ararat" that I read, and you read a part of it in "Soviet Armenia" magazine, William Saroyan's fact, Garzu's fact. Another? There is another cycle of Marieta Shahinyan. then he said: I will die like this, you will see what an Armenian you have lost because you don't consider me an Armenian.
This is also a national state of being. And may God grant that the republic and we are strong enough to be able to take those conditions for ourselves. It's for us too. Be able to turn adversity into strength for us.
Now this seventy-five percent - what seventy-five percent, seventy-five is not enough - this seventy-five percent Armenian Kasparov would be good if he won. I really want him to win and I'll feel really bad if he loses...
- We love you very much, and you...
- There was a very good Ukrainian writer. There is already a fateful year for writers. After Camus, it became kind of fashionable to die at forty-seven. Our Mushegh, Paruyr, Minas, Shukshin... Es Tyutyunnik. I think he didn't make a mistake. On the day of his award, he went to hang himself. Sometimes I want to hang myself, but your love keeps me going.
– Your creative credo.
– Your creative credo. I don't understand a bit. I don't know how to answer this.
Well, Levon, you start, I'll continue.
Levon Mkrtchyan - It is you, again, your religion.
Hrant Matevossian - No. Again, Saroyan is my answer to this question. To tell the truth, Zori Balayan was taken aback by what he said... live, it's worth it...
He said that we must remove the fear from the eyes of these children. It's wonderful. I also think that we should be able to remove this enmity and misunderstanding between people. If I can reduce the attitude of the Turks towards us, the suspicion of the Turks towards us, I will be very satisfied.
If I can instill in them a little sense of justice, that one cannot be an occupier and feel at ease in this world, I should feel extremely happy. And any sense of justice to those who enjoy being occupiers, and to engender a little respect for us, and for their soldier, too, I should feel exceedingly well... Like that. Answer it!
- They say that Yerevan is a bad hostel. Who is from Yerevan?
- This time when we went to Moscow, there was a very nice, clean place. Ed Kremlin, don't you see, beautiful, green, clean, quiet... If you want to escape from the noise of this world, go to the Kremlin. You go in, quietly, cleanly... They took us, like the opposite, they settled us. After those four days of communism, I came to see what noise, what dust, what kind of thing... Everyone treats me with hostility, everyone thinks that I came here, then I will go to their place. There is no, no, no, there is no such thing as cleaning the city. The impression so far is unpleasant, ugly. Apparently, the only way is to buy a car, get in and drive everywhere... I can't do that either...
- What is the state of Armenian literature today?
- You will be patient, you will endure until the next congress of Armenian writers, until you hear Vardges Petrosyan's report and see the state of Armenian literature today. What can I say now? Don't believe me, my attitude can't be the right attitude. Working on paper, that is, the condition of this writer... I apologize for this, but, in any case, my palate has been refined, very little satisfies me. I even like a quarter of Tolstoy. I like "Смерть Ивана Ильича", "Отец Сергий" - I notice, I see - maybe many of you don't see it, but I see it - it's a draft, he didn't clean it, he didn't do it. Don't judge literature by my refined state. I have my favorite writer, from whom I expect two poems a year, and thank God, he gives liuli. This is Hamo Sahyan. Some people think it's boring, some say it's still there, but it's only one, he writes three or four poems every year. I have Razmik Davoyan, who always writes three houses out of ten. Then you say that there were three more houses, and you are disturbed. He writes the next time. In all cases there is himself.
Vahagn Davtyan, who by culture, by working, by working, by polishing his boundaries of human characters, reached emotionality surprisingly. Makes for wonderful poetry.
Who should I tell?
I like Hovhannes Grigoryan a little. Maybe there was nothing to say here, right? I see talent in Hovhannes Grigoryan. But recently he wrote a nasty article, I don't know what kind of story it was. That kind of fact is enough to make you not believe in the personality behind it...
Who else shall I say? Tell me.
Hovhannes Melkonyan is a talented person, and good things should always be expected from him. Let's say three out of four might be very good.
Hope should not be lost on Zorayr Khalapyan, even though he recently switched to machine production. But he is the author of the novel "Where were you, man of God" and "Mernogh-harnogh"; he should have no surprises.
Mushegh died in vain. He was wrong to die. It was betrayal.
Who else should I tell? Tell me.
That's enough.
Vazgen Gabrielyan - Aghasin...
Hrant Matevossian - I heard Vazgen's voice as Gabrielyan. That's your story. You know.
He says that when we were organizing a solemn party and making the list of honored guests, we always saw at the last moment that we had forgotten Gabriel Sundukyan's name, so we put it first. But we always forgot while making the list.
This Agassi is in the condition of that Sundukyan. Always. Perhaps he writes best himself, but we always forget him.
He keeps himself to himself.
It's a glorious styler, glorious. Makes a good style. "Tiflis" has a wonderful story, both have wonderful works about conscience, and a couple of very bad ones. In short, there is himself. Our situation is not as tragic as it may seem.
But perhaps the basis of our dissatisfaction is that, again, more is required of us than the literature of another nation living a normal national life would be. Much is required of us, it is required of the already dead Shiraz, it is required of the already passed Paruyr...
The difficulty of our situation is...
The people no longer have anything, they expect only their writers.
Keep it short, again... What a lovely handwriting. It's a girl. Let me tell you now, you are a girl, thirty-three years old, unmarried...
What is this, tell me briefly.
Levon Mkrtchyan - Yes, he is eighteen years old, you said it wrong, yes.
Says: "It seems to me that your works have a lot in common to reveal the psychological state of American writers" and so on and so forth.
Do I understand you correctly or not?
Hrant Matevossian - As it may seem, I'm not that reader, I'm not a Gramol. My eye is sharpened and I see what I need at once. Fellini was asked what he thought of Joyce now. The forerunner, the beginning, the founder of Western modern literature... He says it will be very anti-pedagogical and anti-educational if I say I have not read Joyce, because others who love Fellini will say there is no need to read Joyce. I recommend that whatever he does, it will be an interview, it will be about him, read it. His name should be given among the great writers, as the greatest writer, as the greatest writer of the 20th century. This is a man who works with a camera instead of a pen and is the greatest writer of the 20th century, among the greatest writers, Faulkner, Sholokhov, Saroyan.
Antonioni came here. We were supposed to tell about the nuances of today's Italian cinema from the height of our knowledge, our provincial literature, and finally it occurred to someone to ask Antonioni about Fellini. You could see the pride of a colleague for a colleague, for a person in the same business, for an Italian film actor, for an Italian titan... He smiled widely, said that he is, why are you talking about someone else?
I'm not that connoisseur, to be honest. And if I say that I haven't read any novel to the end, believe me. I read from the end, from the middle, like this, a piece... But I consider myself lucky in the sense that at the age of the most delicate perception, four stories from Saroyan fell into my hands. One of them was called "Black Tatars", the other was called "70 thousand Assyrians", "The Armenian and the Armenian" and a couple of other stories. And then also in this "Yerevan" newspaper, or where, a couple of publications. And I saw that this was the one who was supposed to be my father, my beginning, that was the one who was supposed to come and help me. Because the appropriation of Bakuntsi had really gone into me already, the rehabilitated Bakuntsi, that wonderful, sparkling pen of Maharu... But it wasn't an influence, no, I can't say. They opened that light. Then, after twenty-five years, I saw that Bakunts did not leave me, Bakunts is in me. I don't remember anything from death. I remember that there was a wonderful, tormented person who wrote, and it was interesting, every page was interesting. Let me say this, but Saroyan also opened the door to American literature. I read folk songs, and that too recently, but I was prepared for it. There was Hemingway, there was Saroya, there was a bit of Caldwell... In the end, there was no need for me to absorb all that, to drink all the sea water, in order to tell what every drop of the sea tastes like. I don't know who prepared me to understand that literature, but I was already ready to understand that literature.
Thank you for this wonderful opportunity. I am also grateful for the great Russian literature and I am extremely grateful for the rubbish I read in my wonderful youth. It... ate my life. I don't know what it was for. "The underground regional committee is functioning", "White birch", "Far from Moscow". They were receiving Stalin's awards while rattling all this, ours were also rattling and being translated and printed, I was also rattling reading... There is nothing left in me... That's it. Like that.
Did I say...
It was written by Yuri Khachatryan
* "Death of Ivan Ilyich".
**...white shirt, clean wonderful teeth, always kind.
***...always willing.
****...white shirt, wonderful, clean teeth, that's it.
***** Rural writer.
****** – Do your characters have archetypes?
- Always. Not possible without prototypes.
- Who among the modern writers is closer to you in spirit?
******* – So which is better, existentialism or the child?
- It's from my novel, Lev Nikitich, if you can give birth to existentialism, that's better, and if you can't give birth to existentialism, it's better to give birth to a child, in my opinion. That's great. And to stay there, in the middle, is terrible.
******** - You are my favorite, close writer... Who is your favorite writer? How about Bulgakov, Shukshin, Aitmatov?
********* "And the day stretches longer than a century."